Help me Decide on a New Car!

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 01/04/2014 at 16:48 • Filed to: None

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OK Jalops and Opponauts, this is the last place where I can find good advice.

My '08 Saturn Astra suffered the most unusual failure the day after Christmas. Somehow, the main output shaft broke after 43,000 miles! It's a 4-speed automatic(I didn't have a choice on the first car) and that shaft breaks with such low mileage?? Apparently I had a Toyota transmission in my car too, which I'm trying to understand how that's even possible; it's a GM car!

Rant aside, my Dad, who is 100% red-blooded American to the core, has declared that my next car can be what ever I want with a budget max of $20-25k only IF it's not foreign.....

This includes the following

Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Volvo, Subaru, MINI, Fiat, Saturn(Don't ask me why, it's GM), Mitsubishi and VW(Sucks because I really liked the GLI)

Now I was originally gonna get a Porsche 944 in the spring as a secondary car, but now that my DD has to be replaced with something newer, That car purchase, to my knowledge, has been halted for who knows how long. :(

That being said, my new car has to meet the following criteria:

1. It has to be AMERICAN

2. Manual Transmission

3. 4-Wheel Disc Brakes

4. Compact Sedan

5. A Healthy Amount of Technology(I'm 18)

6. Sporty/Tight Handling and a Good Pulling Motor

7. A Good Sized Interior

8. Looking at 2013-2014 Cars

9. And Lastly must be within the $20-25k range, no higher.

The Only Cars that have matched the criteria completely are the Ford Focus and Dodge Dart. The Chevy Cruze just looks plain and boring to me. I can't think of any other cars or which is the better of the two. I don't listen to C&D and Motor Trend because they're biased and other such things. My Dad thinks the Focus is better and I like the Dart. I get to test drive the two Thursday so I'll see which one I like, but it doesn't hurt to get another opinion!

So I'm asking the community here, anyone who's driven both or one, has some experience or some story with with these two cars or something better to give me some advice/help on this decision.

Thank you!

EDIT: I should have mentioned this about the Dart, the only two engines I'm looking at are the 1.4T and 2.4NA and I'm under my parent's policy right now.

EDIT 2: My opinions of the Focus and Dart

2014 Focus Titanium

Pros: Looks good, lighter than the Dart(2900lbs vs 3300lbs), more "modern" interior, handling, interior looks cooler to me, because it's lighter it's quicker off the line.

Cons: There's not a single Focus with the options I want in my area, I'm impatient to have one built for me, the design is neat but not doing it for me, and I cannot decide on a good color to match the head/tail lights(it's VERY important to me) and the interior seems cramped especially in the back. You gotta pay more for the good options...

2014 Dart GT

Pros: That design is very European with so many curves, the LED racetrack tailights are the coolest thing since sliced bread, the interior is comfy and spacious, lots of cargo space for a sedan, that turbo which I haven't heard a complaint about, all that technology! maybe the 2.4 but not sure yet, and 6 gears. And that turbo sound! It's got the better numbers too. And more options for less and more Darts than Foci that have what I want/need

Cons: Electrical problems seem to be the norm, it's heavy for the class(100lbs less than a Fusion!), not sure how the weight will affect the handling for this particular car. the shift knob is a giant ball and I've got small hands!(maybe aftermaket will fix that) Can't think of anything else really...

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Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 16:59

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Fiesta ST. The best car for this price new.

Suby555 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:00

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Focus ST.
Go drive one and you'll love it. Fun factor is there. Practical. American. Plus a warranty. Fits everything. They are 24k I believe.

Team6.1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:01

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Are you dead set on a new car? Getting something 2010+ would open up a lot of possibilities

heliochrome85 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:01

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My vote would be for Focus. The chassis is excellent. A basic Fusion wouldnt be bad either, but may be too big for your needs.

The Dart is a no-go.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 01/04/2014 at 17:03

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Eh.....Sedan it must be!

I'm only considering hatchbacks as a last resort. My current car is a hatch and I want to try something different. Also I sat in one a couple months back and while it was decent in the front I hated the rear seats; I even forced my friends, who are all over 6' to torture themselves in the back.

I drive a lot of those friends around too so I need to be a little considerate about this choice.

heliochrome85 > Suby555 01/04/2014 at 17:03

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insurance for an 18 year old may be CRAZY

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Team6.1 01/04/2014 at 17:04

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That depends... I wouldn't want a used car with 100,000 miles on it. If it's a very low mileage then I suppose. What do you have in mind?

Suby555 > heliochrome85 01/04/2014 at 17:05

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If his dad is giving him 25k to spend on a car I would assume he would be on his parents insurance aswell. But of course this is an assumption.

duurtlang > heliochrome85 01/04/2014 at 17:05

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Why is the Dart a no-go?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Suby555 01/04/2014 at 17:05

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I do like the ST!

It's practical, comfortable and while I haven't taken a ride in one, I can only imagine the fun! But still, any fun sedans out there?

 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:06

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The answer is always Miata. Oh and can I have your dad so he can buy me a car?

heliochrome85 > Suby555 01/04/2014 at 17:06

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fair point.

duurtlang > Suby555 01/04/2014 at 17:06

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About as American as that Saturn Astra, but I agree with the Focus ST. It's the car I'd pick given the restrictions given.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > heliochrome85 01/04/2014 at 17:07

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I guess I should have said that the only two Darts I'm looking at are the 1.4T and 2.4 NA.

But the focus isn't bad at all. I do like it to some degree...

lucky's pepper > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:07

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With diesel VWs out of the running, I'd say Fiesta ST if it's big enough, Focus ST if the Fiesta is too small.

heliochrome85 > duurtlang 01/04/2014 at 17:07

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the engines are crude. Reviews havent been remotely glowing. I do like the look though.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer >  01/04/2014 at 17:07

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Miata is foreign so it's a BIG no-go for me :-/

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > lucky's pepper 01/04/2014 at 17:09

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Hmm..... everyone seems to like the focus and fiesta a lot!

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:10

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Hmmmm, does the Sonic RS come in sedan form? If not, I'd say go with the Dart. It has some good looks and a good chassis.

heliochrome85 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:11

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I do like the 2.4, but havent spent alot of seat time in either. Its definately a looker for the price.

mattoverdrive > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:11

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Focus ST and Fiesta ST checks all of the boxes except for the sedan aspect.

If you can get a coupe, a V6 Mustang would fit the bill too.

BmacIL > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:11

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Focus with the manual transmission. Sure, it's not ST-fast, but it's still quick enough to be fun, handles well, and can be extremely well equipped. Interior is nice, good FE.

Suby555 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:13

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If your dead set on a sedan go and look at a wrx. They make sedan versions. Just at the end of your budget though. Right at 25k I believe. Insurance will be pricey however. I know it's not American. But Subaru does produce cars In America. And therefore make American jobs etc. you might be able to swing it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 01/04/2014 at 17:13

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I agree with you on the Dart's looks! That's the one thing I think it has over the Focus

And the Dart is nice and comfy on the inside too. My friend picked one up a couple weeks ago and has had no complaints yet.

The Sonic is kinda "meh" looking to me. Those headlamps just look plain ugly to me.

lucky's pepper > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:14

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Drive one, you'll see why.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:15

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My friend has a Focus sedan and loves it, he has the manual also. I think either way you go, you'll get a good car. If I was buying it I'd get the dart.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Suby555 01/04/2014 at 17:16

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Oh if you met my Dad..... Oh boy!

He'd go on rants about Asian reliability and because the Astra is of European decent, he won't let me go that route this time.

The WRX is a nice looking car too! But yeah I have to consider insurance as well. I'm under their policy.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 01/04/2014 at 17:20

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I know I'll get a good car, or at least a better one than my current one, but it's gotta be the best for the money! :)

duurtlang > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:21

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Then don't tell him the Focus (and Fiesta) are of European decent as well. As are the Dart and Cruze (European platform and engines), but to a lesser extent than the Focus and Astra.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:21

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It's very ironic that your father likes the Focus yet ruled out Saturn for "foreigness".

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BmacIL 01/04/2014 at 17:22

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The interior is modern and clean. The Dart's interior, with it's curves and such says "90s" to me which I think is unique.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > mattoverdrive 01/04/2014 at 17:22

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I'd love a coupe! I can't imagine why a mustang wouldn't work out....

mattoverdrive > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:23

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The wheelbases of the hatch and sedan versions of the focus and fiesta are probably very close, if not the same. So you're probably not going to be getting any additional legroom, and you'd be getting less headroom in the back.

I'm 6'2", and I'm pretty sure none of you buddies are going to fit in the back seats comfortably in any of the cars your considering. Buy what works for you, not what works as a taxi for your pals.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:23

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I'd go with a Dart. 1.4T of you're going to mod it, 2.4 Tigershark if its going to be driven as-is.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > duurtlang 01/04/2014 at 17:25

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Well when I said the Astra is of Euro decent, I mean GM literally just shipped it over here to the US. The Astra is built by Opel. I'm not gonna say a word of that to him either, but I think he may know that.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:26

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Push him for the Charger! Maybe you can get a good deal on a base one.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > mattoverdrive 01/04/2014 at 17:27

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Yeah. My tallest friends are 6'3" and one of them complains about sitting in the back of a 300! So I guess really that interior size won't make a dif in the C-segment.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 01/04/2014 at 17:29

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The Astra is Opel built in Belgium and he's kinda biased to foreign things so he essentially included the entire brand...

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 01/04/2014 at 17:30

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I don't know, the charger seems rather big to me. I saw one next to a Dart the other day and it seemed to dwarf it in my opinion.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > mattoverdrive 01/04/2014 at 17:41

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Exactly the same wheelbase for the sedan and hatch.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:43

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It is a big car, it's in a another class altogether. Besides it only comes in automatic (why Dodge why!)

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:45

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Well the Dart is a re-engineered Fiat/Alfa Romeo, the Cruze was developed in Korea and the Focus was developed in Germany so your dad is SOL. Lmao there are no "American" compact sedans left.

Buy a Focus or Fiesta ST. Just don't tell him that it's German.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:45

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New Focus Titanium. Get the hatch. It's more practical, and there is zero difference in wheelbase or interior room in the rear versus the sedan.

The Titanium trim has some suspension mods for better handling, has all the toys, and since it's a Focus is very, very good to drive.

Also, the Focus and Fiesta sedans look stupid. These cars were built to be hatchbacks. Get the hatch, enjoy the extra utility. There is no downside.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 01/04/2014 at 17:46

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Oh...Well then it deserves this for not coming with a standard.

Get it? Because it's German, and I can't have a foreign car.... :(

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 01/04/2014 at 17:49

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There's not much American anything left is there! And he won't believe any of it! It's very frustrating at times. If I told him that he'd just say some random BS about that fact and not change his mind about squat.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:51

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mattoverdrive > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:51

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Just don't plan on putting your buddies in the back seat and you should be good.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/04/2014 at 17:52

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There is one thing that's holding me back

Those tail lights, everyone seems to hate them. They are rather huge and outlandish.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > mattoverdrive 01/04/2014 at 17:55

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So many cons with each plan! :(

What if I said I wanted a driver's car that met that criteria above and at the same time was practical? Would you say Focus?

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 17:56

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According to parts content, the Honda Civic is more American than the Focus. And the Aveo is basically Korean with a Chevy badge. Show him that list.

Your dad is a xenophobic old man that needs to get with the times, because he is lying to himself if he thinks anything he buys is purely American. I can understand patriotism and rooting for the home team but this is just stupid.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 01/04/2014 at 18:02

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I don't want to talk shit about him AT ALL. And yes he is somewhat old. But that's what makes him a fantastic Dad, regardless of this situation. He does have great taste in cars and is an enthusiast(He's had his '74 911 for 40 years now)!

But I can't say anything because he wouldn't believe me on those facts alone. He'd need to here it from an official or something, maybe even a dealership at the least.

The Focus is pretty "American" from the looks of it. I just assume that he thinks if it doesn't have an American badge on the hood it's not gonna work.

Makoyouidiot > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 18:09

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Didn't check if anyone else has said so, but most "American" cars are built overseas, and many foreign makes are built here. Might point that out to your old man, although if he's anything like mine, (a pig headed stubborn old coot) it won't make a damn bit of difference.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 18:12

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He's had his '74 911 for 40 years now

Something does not compute, he is a blind patriot chest-thumping 'Merican that drives a souped up old Hitler mobile?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Makoyouidiot 01/04/2014 at 18:15

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I wouldn't say he's a "pig headed stubborn old coot", but anything I say won't make a difference. I fear that there's only one option left.....

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 01/04/2014 at 18:20

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Well...... Like I said, he's does like cars, just not Asian one's and now he doesn't like my Astra. He loves Porsche, nothings gonna change that. Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bentley and those supercar brands may be the only exception and I'm not getting one of those right now. He hates the Lexus LFA because, well.... you know. So yeah. Not the best scenario is it?

mattoverdrive > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 18:24

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After many years of driving, I've come to the realization, that the best car is five cars.

I'd say the Focus should work well for you, but make sure this is a decision you're making for yourself, and take the advise of opponauts with a grain of salt.

mattoverdrive > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 18:24

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After many years of driving, I've come to the realization, that the best car is five cars.

I'd say the Focus should work well for you, but make sure this is a decision you're making for yourself, and take the advise of opponauts with a grain of salt.

Makoyouidiot > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 18:25

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Lol. Alternatively, having owned a Dart, I can say that you won't regret it now that prices are reasonable. We bought ours right as they came out, overpaid massively, and I hated that single fact enough that I got rid of it for a better deal on a Mazda that was actually worth what we'd be paying. The car itself I loved tho, but get the extended warranty, because some of the electrics are iffy. Ours developed touchscreen and speaker issues in less than 6 months.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > mattoverdrive 01/04/2014 at 18:36

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Interesting...

What do you mean by "the best car is five cars"?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Makoyouidiot 01/04/2014 at 18:38

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I've heard of some the craziest electrical gremlins from Darts. Go check out the Dart forums; particularly dodge-dart.org as that's where I've seen some of the problems.

Can anyone vouch for problems with the Focus? because I know for a fact that car isn't perfect either. I'm not really a fan of Microsoft's My Ford Touch.

CPT Speedbump > Suby555 01/04/2014 at 18:42

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Its really the only choice, any other car thats American and compact will be crap.

mattoverdrive > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 19:01

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So here's the thing, out of countless models there's just a handful of cars that mostly meet all of your criteria. There are many very good vehicles, that excel in one category, but are excluded from the list since they don't accomplish the other tasks very well.

Really, five cars was an arbitrary number. But the concept is that it's not really possible to get one vehicle that does it all. And the ones that do meet most of the criteria are either really expensive or make too many compromises.

I daily drive a BRZ, a car that's not really practical for moving stuff or people around, but it's ok since I have a pickup and an older Grand Cherokee that better accomplish those tasks. I thought about tuning the BRZ for the track, but it would be cheaper to buy and tune an old supra instead of voiding the warranty on the BRZ.

This viewpoint works well for my circumstances, but admittedly, it's not practical for everyone to have 5 cars.

SonorousSpeedJoe > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 19:02

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I drive a 2012 Focus SE 5-speed hatch. I'd say that I prefer the 1.4T Dart's sound and sixth cog to the Focus' sound and 5-speed, but I don't know how well the Dart drives (though that may not matter all that much for A-to-B commuting). The Dart's interior seems more well-appointed to me, what with the leather inserts and the screens, and I also like the looks of the interior accent lighting and racetrack LED taillights. One issue I have with the interior of the Focus (non-MFT) is the location of the heated seat controls - I find it annoying to reach around the armrest's lid, which extends forward, to adjust the controls while driving. Additionally, there isn't much rear legroom. Otherwise, I like the way the Focus looks and drives.

I don't know if either car pulls hard enough - the Dart AFAIK is more powerful yet heavier, and I usually apply a bit of throttle before taking my foot off the clutch pedal to smoothly shift the Focus. The Dart 2.4 might have a good amount of power, but I'd personally compromise by getting the 1.4T Dart for its sound.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > SonorousSpeedJoe 01/04/2014 at 19:37

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I do like the sound of a whining turbo :)

I guess if I were to sort it out as pros and cons it'd look like this

2014 Focus Titanium

Pros: Looks good, lighter than the Dart(2900lbs vs 3300lbs), more "modern" interior, handling, interior looks cooler to me, because it's lighter it's quicker off the line.

Cons: There's not a single Focus with the options I want in my area, I'm impatient to have one built for me, the design is neat but not doing it for me, and I cannot decide on a good color to match the head/tail lights(it's VERY important to me) and the interior seems cramped especially in the back.

2014 Dart GT

Pros: That design is very european, the LED racetrack tailights are the coolest thing since sliced bread, the interior is comfy and spacious, lots of cargo space for a sedan, that turbo which I haven't heard a complaint about, all that technology! maybe the 2.4 but not sure yet, and 6 gears. And that turbo sound! It's got the better numbers too.

Cons: Electrical problems seem to be the norm, it's heavy for the class(100lbs less than a Fusion!), not sure how the weight will affect the handling for this particular car. the shift knob is a giant ball and I've got small hands!(maybe aftermaket will fix that) Can't think of anything else really...

BmacIL > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 19:42

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Also you can get the focus with the sports suspension and wheel package, which is nice. 2.0L will be reliable as you could ask for.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 19:54

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I've got a great suggestion but you have to hear me out:

The Buick Verano Turbo.

Brand new the price is a bit high at $29,000.... but if you spend it, you get a medium size sedan, leather, turbo engine making 250 hp, a 6 speed manual, sunroof, and a whole lot of tech toys (onstar, touchscreen, backup cam, 9 speaker Bose system, whatever GMs version of Sync is called).. however, you can easily find either a used one or dealer demo for way less...

It is rated at 20/31 mpg and is quite fun to drive.. here is Buick's press release on it

Plus, it is a good looking car... what do you think?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 01/04/2014 at 19:57

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As long as he doesn't find out that it's actually the newest Opel Astra for America, I'd love one! If I could find a used or demo Turbo for $25k then hell yes!

But that grille is my only gripe, If I had one, I'd learn to live with it.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 20:02

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If everyone else jumps off a bridge into an empty swimming pool covered in spikes, would you too?

They are different. So what? The hatch looks better than the sedan by light years.

Tom McParland > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 20:07

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As you might be aware, this is kinda what I do .

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A few things, I drove both the 5 speed Focus and the 1.4 6MT Dart when the lease was up on my Mazda 3. I liked the handling of the Focus but was so-so on the motor and the trans. The Dodge was very nice but felt a bit heavy for me. I drove a few more things but at the end of the day I just bought out my lease and will keep the Mazda until I have the monies for something really nice. However, if I had to choose between the Ford and the Dodge I would go with the Dart. Honestly if it came in a 5-door I probably would have gotten one.

Anyway, if you have to get a domestic you can also consider a lightly used Regal Turbo CPO examples can be had for under 25k, you might even find a GS. But landing a 6MT will be tough.

Also, you could lease a ATS 6MT for much less than your car payments would be on the loaded Focus or Dart. Leasing is a whole other ball -game but would allow you to get much more Jalop worthy American hardware.

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If you would like anymore assistance feel free to find me here on Oppo or drop me a line - AutomatchConsulting@gmail.com

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/04/2014 at 20:08

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I will concede that the hatch looks better for the Focus. But the car I'm after also has to be one that can impress and wow people and get noticed if possible. Apparently, if it's not some fancy GTI or a 1985 Toyota Tercel(I'm serious it actually did that) it's just not possible. That's what I noticed.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tom McParland 01/04/2014 at 20:23

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Thank you for your advice!

I feel as though the Dart would be the best for me because of it's optional amenities that can be had for a lower or similar price compared to the Focus. I'm also sure that even with it's heavier weight, that weight must offer some benefit compared to the Focus? My last/current car is 2917lbs and the car I've been driving while mines in the shop is an '05 Magnum(my dad's) and it weighs around 3900lbs so I don't think that added weight will kill me.

I guess I really won't know how much the weight really plays into the Dart's handling until Thursday. Though I'm not sure which car to drive first. Usually the first car can have the bigger impact on decision making if I'm not mistaken.

I'll definitely give you a shout when I need help! :)

SonorousSpeedJoe > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 20:24

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I do prioritize color choice, but it's the reverse for me; the Focus Titanium's black headlight housings make my choice easier, while getting a loaded 1.4T Dart requires getting a trim other than the Dart GT (the only trim with the better-looking black housings IIRC, but it also has the non-turbocharged 2.4). I'm with you on the lack of variety when trying to find a loaded manual Focus.

Tom McParland > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 20:24

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At the end of the day...go with the one that just feels right. :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > SonorousSpeedJoe 01/04/2014 at 20:29

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Yeah. I already know that I want a white Dart because it really brings out the tail lights and it's actually the first car I've ever liked in white.

As for the Focus, I'm torn between performance blue, ruby red, sterling gray and race red.

Makoyouidiot > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 20:35

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Look at dodgedartcentral.com. their forum is full of stories

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tom McParland 01/04/2014 at 20:44

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I agree; were it so easy though, I wouldn't be in this drawn out predicament haha!

Tom McParland > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 20:52

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The shopping is the fun part the negotiations are the pain in the ass.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tom McParland 01/04/2014 at 20:57

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Oh yeah! I actually kinda feel bad already if I choose one or the other. The Dodge dealership salesman was very kind and friendly to both my dad and I and we all had a nice 2-hour conversation about things we all had in common and other such things. Heck, the Dart came up in the conversation less than everything else.

The Ford dealership seemed more business oriented and less friendly to me but the saleswoman we talked to was still friendly.

I guess this is what I get for cross-shopping. :(

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > mattoverdrive 01/04/2014 at 21:04

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Oh! That makes perfect sense! :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Makoyouidiot 01/04/2014 at 21:08

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Ooh boy. I've just tabbed six stories to read...

This may or may not be fun... But I don't understand why I'm finding so few problems with the Focus? There's gotta be at least one MAJOR problem?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 21:38

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Given your father's restrictions, no you aren't going to find it.

Unless you start looking at classic American Iron. 20-25k will get you some nice old rides, but you will pay in lack of safety and gas mileage.

You have two choices. Get the Focus as nearly everyone has suggested, as it's best value for the money/kit/drive on the market right now, or tell your dad to stuff it and find a job and get your own damn car from whatever country you choose.

You'd have to look hard to find one that hasn't been touched inappropriately by some stance idiot, but an older GTi is a great car and should be cheap to insure/run.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/04/2014 at 21:54

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Would a 2012 VW Jetta GLI impress anyone? If I could get one.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 22:06

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Why are you worried about what other people think?

You'll be far better off in life if you ignore others and do what you chose to. (That does not mean there are no consequences, just that basing your decisions on other people will always lead to sadness.)

What impresses people the most is self-confidence. Be you. Drive what you like. Don't follow a fad simply because others are.

Is the GLI a nice car? Yes. It's not bad at all.

Makoyouidiot > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 22:09

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No clue, I've never owned a Ford in my life.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Makoyouidiot 01/04/2014 at 22:30

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There are soo many with the '13 Darts it's just boggles the mind!

No starts, the electronics going haywire randomly, one died on the highway! And another had its door handle randomly fall off! I mean it's the first two years for the car, but a lot of those problems are pretty bad and moderately terrifying to me. Haven't found any problems or horror stories with the 2014 Dart yet....

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/04/2014 at 22:41

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It's good to see that there are people out there like you that know better than I do. I'll be honest, I wanted the new Focus(Hatch too) last year, but I had people and forums say that a hatch wouldn't impress anyone and that America is all about sedans and that got to me.

So I decided that my next car whenever that day would come, would be a sedan so people wouldn't think I was driving the modern day equivalent of the station wagon. :(

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 22:44

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Here's a story that just about scares the everything out of me...

"Driving on a two lane road,wanted to pass two slow moving vehicles, saw car coming in distance and decided to pass one and then the other. When I pushed the accelerator to pass it IMMEDIATELY sucked the pedal to the floor and I was flying. Tried repeatedly to pump brakes. Hit oncoming car, rear end the car I was passing, or hit the ditch? Headed for the ditch when it finally disengaged...... Pulled off road, shaking so badly I couldnt drive. ECT light (emergency throttle) was on. Turned off engine and sat for a few minutes> I was 45 miles from home. Manual said if you restarted and light was off to continue and contact dealership. Light off. Drove home and stopped for fast food. When I came out car started fine but NOW says every gear is not available and transmission light is on. Husband came and got me and we called dealership. They had it towed in (and being Saturday) I haven't heard anything. You don't know how TERRIFYING it was to not be able to slow down!! If it had not stopped at the second it did I could have been killed! Hit oncoming car head on or rear ended someone else. 2100 actual miles on car.....not sure how confident I will be to drive it if they say nothing is wrong?"

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/04/2014 at 23:17

4

People are stupid, and especially most Americans.

Driving a hatchback is not the equivalent of driving a station wagon. There is no downside to owning a hatch. You get more room to haul stuff, it's nearly the same size car as the sedan, and you don't pay the penalty of tons of extra weight.

That said, round these parts, we tend to disagree with what the typical 'Murican It'sJustACar thinks. Hell, we love wagons too. For the same reasons. Compared to an SUV/CUV, a wagon gives you about the same space, less weight, better mileage, and it's way more fun to drive. I don't see a downside there.

People do complain that wagons aren't good looking, and admitedly styling is subjective. However, people are being fed lies about status related to owning an SUV. If more people cared less about what others think, we'd have way more wagon options to purchase in this country.

Also, wagon seats fold into a bed. I gather you're young. This is an important feature, let me assure you.

If you want, and like the Focus hatch, then try to get one. Even if you can't swing an ST, the Titanium is nearly as fun to drive, because the Focus is a great chassis, and you'll get good mileage, not have to pay the penalty on insurance like the ST, and still have a fun, practical car with room in the back to have some life experiences.

I've owned a 2002 SVT Focus 3-door hatch since 2006. Hatchbacks are awesome. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

And, just an FYI, the Dart is a good looking vehicle. I'd consider owning one, so long as it drove well and I liked the inside. As with any car advice request, you need to go and drive everything you can reasonably consider purchasing. Drive Everything. Then if you need to, drive them all again. You'll find a car that 'speaks' to you, and if you can afford it that's the one to get.

We have a varied taste for vehicles around here. So long as you are happy with your ride, learn to keep it working, and strive to be a better driver, then you need not worry about not being 'Jalop.'

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/04/2014 at 23:51

1

I think I'm gonna print what you said, frame it, and put it on my wall. :)

That was pure car knowledge at the core to me.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/05/2014 at 03:21

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Stick around. There's hope for you yet.

Ha ha.

Makoyouidiot > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/05/2014 at 08:13

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Crazy. Ours was a first run of production, and we only had the speaker and touchscreen issues. Guess we were lucky. Scary that my current Fiat 500 has a better reliability record than the Dart.

George McNally > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/05/2014 at 10:11

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How about the Fiesta ST?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > George McNally 01/05/2014 at 11:14

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You know, I don't see a problem with getting an American hot hatch anymore.
Adding it to
The list of possible cars! :)

moran11 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/08/2014 at 03:08

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I'd say a used Fusion/Mercury Milano. See if your dad will give you the difference for your next car or gas/insurance for this one. It will also bother you less when you car gets dinged at college and other places if it's used.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/09/2014 at 18:53

1

Test drove the Titanium Focus yesterday! You know what that means... :)

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/09/2014 at 20:11

1

Told you it was good.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/09/2014 at 20:21

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Here's what I thought aout my test drive! Much better than I could have ever anticipated! I wanted to get behind the wheel of one of those since 2012. :)

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Now for the one question that I cannot answer. I'm going for ruby red as the color of the Focus and found two. Unfortunately, one sedan and one hatch. I personally would be happy with either and regardless of the choice I make, there will always be a hint of doubt if I should have gone with one or the other; so I'm thinking to just wing it and flip a coin!

(It's just the different lighting)

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/09/2014 at 20:42

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Hatch.

Always.

It fits the Focus so much better. The only thing you'd lose is the lower practicality of the sedan.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/09/2014 at 20:55

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It does. The original Focus was a hatch to begin with! It looks sportier too, which is want I want and prefer as well.

Say, what do you think about the refreshed Focus pics? Here's a couple:

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 01/09/2014 at 21:17

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Won't have an opinion until I see it without camo.

Ford has been on a roll lately, so I would be surprised if I didn't like it.